Oceanic Servers
JB Suggestions - Printable Version

+- Oceanic Servers (https://forums.oceservers.com)
+-- Forum: Development (https://forums.oceservers.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Suggestions (https://forums.oceservers.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=21)
+--- Thread: JB Suggestions (/showthread.php?tid=105)

Pages: 1 2


JB Suggestions - TyrANUS - 13-07-2018

Hi, as you can see my name is TyrANUS and I have recently been playing Domination Jailbreak quite a bit. For a bit of context, I have 500+ hrs on CSGO jailbreak (used to play on Banhammer) and was well known in the Banhammer community. I realize that, being new to this server, means that my opinion doesnt really matter but I thought I would try to suggest some improvements from my very extensive time and knowledge accumulated playing jailbreak. (I have a lot of suggestions so i appreciate the admins/members of the community reading this lengthy post).

Major Suggestions:
So firstly, the biggest thing I have noticed is the win rate on this server. Note that it varies from map to map but from what I have seen, the terrorists rebel and win around 70-100% of the time which is simply ridiculous in my opinion (this winrate should be around 50%). I do not think that the CT-T ratio is the cause of this, this seems to be an ok ratio. I think that the rules simply do not allow for enough 'discipline' within each round. From my experience playing jailbreak, the best way to do this is to allow the CT team to make the T's 'buttonfreeze' (i.e. no jumping, running around, b-hopping etc). In addition to this, CT's should also be able to make T's shiftwalk or crouchwalk (within reason) to certain locations as well as allowing CT's to make t's face a certain direction when necessary. From what I have seen, map games are almost never being played on this server as simply trying to get the T's there allows them too much opportunity to rebel. A helpful way Banhammer JB dealt with this was implementing a good warden system coupled with the warden being able to place down various sized 'beacons' in which the T's could be told to remain in or button freeze in, which was very useful for transportation. This warden system was also very handy for being able to confirm who the warden was every round (the ct's would type !w in chat every round and a warden was randomly chosen and the name displayed to everyone). Additionally, only the warden had access to these beacons and commands. 

Secondly, I feel a system needs to be put in place for T's who have rebelled (shot or damaged a CT either by a nade, knife or gun) as well as baited weapons. The way BH used to deal with this was to make the model of the rebelling T red to distinguish him from the rest of them (after he had damaged a CT), additionally, a message was posted in chat which specified who had rebelled. This way, a T could not simply have a gun in a large group then throw it to someone else to prevent being killed after having shot a CT. Furthermore, baited t's were able to have their 'rebel' status removed by admins on the server as well as their guns, as it is the CT's fault that they were baited. 

Next, I feel as though the mic spam needs to be addressed. I have played too many games where the T's were simply spamming their mics and thus no one could hear the wardens orders and admins were not muting the Terrorists. This is simply ridiculous. Any player that mic spams repeatedly at the end of every round or during the round should have harsher punishments (a map mute for example or for extreme cases a ban of some sort). The mic spam over the warden and CT's, especially when the warden gets killed is quite a big issue in my opinion.

Minor Suggestions:
1) Allow CT's to kill terrorists on sight if they pull out a primary weapon but not a secondary (slight change to the holster rule)
2) Add more maps - some common jailbreak ones (clouds, peanut views, renegade,sand etc.) I strongly feel as though the maps currently in rotation are not developed well enough - not enough map games, not set out the best (too many opportunities to rebel), controls for games not clear etc. Note that this doesnt apply to all the maps, but it would be nice to have common JB maps in the rotation. 
3) Kind of a big one. I REALLY think that the friendly fire smokes need to be removed. I personally dont really see the point of them other than to disrupt the flow of the round and allow you to kill fellow T's so I think that having these in the game should be reconsidered. 
4) Consider having admins do more mic/rulechecks on the CT's, since it seems that at many times, some CT's dont know the rules properly or how to play CT. 
5) Allow the game Last Reaction to be played. In my experience, it is a pretty fun game and useful for thinning the T's when theres a lot of them or for getting an even number or something of that sort etc. 
6) Consider changing the rule of not playing a mapgame for three rounds. As many of the maps do not have many map games, it can get difficult for CT's. Additionally, some mapgames such as climb, bhop, roulette etc. are just fun and should be able to be played. I understand why this rule is in place but if some maps are added so that there are many map games, there will be enough variety so rounds dont become stale and boring for the T's
7) At the moment, Last Request is only available for the last Terrorist remaining, however, I think it should be for the last 3. It simply allows for more people to play it.
8) Dont give T's guns the end of the round. Allow it to be played out. Consider also extending the round timer to 10ish minutes for more mapgames to be played.

Theres probably a few more minor things i forgot but thats it for now. Again, i really appreciate any admins reading this and taking my thoughts into account. I realize that every server is different and some of the major changes may be out of the question but I thought i would suggest them anyway because from my experience, banhammer was a very popular and active JB server and in which many of these rules were in place and everyone seemed to think the balance of both teams was right and everyone had fun most of the time. 

Thanks for hearing me out,
TyrANUS  Smile


RE: JB Suggestions - Shane - 13-07-2018

Our JB server differs from any other in CS:GO, we have custom maps, no warden plugin, smokes etc.

That warden plugin, ruleset and those maps completely ruin jailbreak and they have since they started being released. You're suggesting we remove everything and become like every other server that fails because they do nothing out of the norm.

Also worth pointing out that the ruleset isn't aimed towards CT's having a great time, enjoying a power trip and ordering a few players around the map. It's for that exact reason that games that 'thin out' T's easily are banned or have heavy restrictions in place.

We don't want rounds going for ages and any orders given with heavy 'nazi' connotations create negative experiences for players and are heavily discouraged as a result.


RE: JB Suggestions - ONIONZZZ - 13-07-2018

Hey,

Thanks for the suggestions. This might come as a shock to you so I'll try and break it down in points.

- The things we have done with the server are done to set us apart from others, almost all your points want us to conform to be like the other, DEAD, servers.
- This style of Jailbreak has been around for YEARS, going back to 2009 or so when it started turning into what it is now.
- Our Jailbreak style is based off of the Freedom Gamers playstyle and ruleset dating back to 2010, (very little has changed and most of our players are from FG on Source)
- Our maps are unique to us, and they suit our playstyle. The maps you listed are fantasy maps and do not conform to our style of Jailbreak.
- We are adding more maps, since they are all custom, they do take time. Hyphen is in the process of finishing two. Just another FYI, most of our maps are ports from Source (from FG), because it is what the players like.
- The smoke plugin has been a staple of our Jailbreak since 2010 or before.
- We currently do not have a very large staff team like our predecessors, so they tend to have to handle more on their own which gives less time to things like mic checks etc, but I will mention it to the team for a point to improve on.
- Lol, Last Reaction, again, has been banned for almost 10 years.
- The three round mapgame rules, again, has been around for almost 10 years.
- LR is available to the last T as a reward, allowing a rebelling T to LR is simply against our playstyle.
- T's are given guns at the end of the round if the round is not progressing, therefore it is not a 100% each time, but only if the round is moving or T's are not dying.

Thanks for your suggestions but I don't think any of our staff team or playerbase would agree to any of them. It is just unfortunate that you picked the staple rules that have allowed us to be so successful as points of change :P

If you have any more, please post! I'm sure others will give their opinions here a well.

Cheers


RE: JB Suggestions - ShaggyRogers212 - 13-07-2018

Just for a bit of context about me, I've played with previous renditions of this community since 2011, and I have 3000+ hours on CSS/CSGO Jailbreak. Whilst I have a lot of experience with this group of players, and have a lot of opinions, I by no means speak for the community, the admin team, etc. I just wanted to chime in on your thread.

Firstly, spam is something that needs to be addressed, but as the server progresses, I'm sure that you're likely to see quicker/harsher punishments from the admin team. Unfortunately our admin team can't always be active, so if you or anyone else with jailbreak experience wishes to apply, then I would encourage you to do so. The more experience in the team, the better.

Whilst I agree that minor changes are probably needed to make the maps more fair for both teams, most of what you have suggested just isn't what our community looks for in a jailbreak server. Freezing/Button-Freezing has always been a big no-no, and something that has been one of the most differentiating factors between our server and others. It may help to control the Terrorists, but it is too much of a restriction to force upon players, and it is easy for Guards to abuse it and be ridiculously trigger happy about. We simply tell Prisoners where to go, and if they don't go there then they can be shot, simple as that. 

Your remaining major changes being the Warden System, and Rebelling System are features that we've never used and are unlikely to use as it places more restrictions and barriers around the way our form of Jailbreak is played. Our most successful server on CS:S was known as "Freedom Jailbreak", and it's more than just a name, it's also the foundation for our format.

I won't address every point because forums can be a bit clunky, but I'll go through some of them:

- I think the restriction of VIP smokes needs to be looked at, but as for doing damage, that's how it has always been and the core of this community won't be in favour of changing that.
- As for map games, because we have a rule saying that no more than 10 T's can be killed per map-game (unless the map-game is uncontrollable), and you can only play a particular map-game every 3 rounds, a lot of the maps are simply not built for 20-30 Prisoners. That would be something that needs to be looked at not only in the maps that we have on the server, but in editing the maps to accommodate more map games within a smaller area. For example, canyondam has 3 core-games being Race, Climb, and Couch-Game - Assuming that the CTs aren't getting destroyed - They'll need to make up games for the most part to fill in the gaps. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but we definitely need more map-games overall in my opinion.
- As for giving guns at the end of the round, I believe it's only really meant to occur if the round isn't progressing at a reasonable pace. Some admins will give them at 2:00 automatically, but what I would do is give them at 2:00 only if the round is being delayed, moving at a slow pace, or if the warden is deliberately playing voting games that take forever. Otherwise, a warning at 1:00, and AKs given at 0:00 would be fair in my opinion.


A lot of your minor points are definitely something that I believe should be looked at more closely by the operators, and upper management. But as you mentioned, your major points are much moreso out of the question, seeing as that just isn't how we operate, or have operated in the past 10 years or so.


RE: JB Suggestions - jordjord - 13-07-2018

Thank you for the suggestions.

As ONIONZZZ has said this rule set/play style dates back to ~2010. The rules have hardly changed in that time. This jailbreak is more casual. Allowing button freezing tends to turn jailbreak into a massacre as the ct's start killing the t's for the slightest movement (which makes jb less fun). KOS for taking out a weapon is in my opinion nazi and ruins the game from being fun for the t's (in which a majority of the players will be on).

If you look at our maps almost all of them are from Source (and look like actual prisons). Most of the maps also have lots of map games. Wakka for instance has 2 obbys, a climb, a race, soccer, indiana jones (sort of like deathrun/obby), 2 pools, surf, wipeout, kitchen, cannon game, hunger games, basketball, minefield, c4 toss surf, disco and a car game. That is a lot of games. Wazza has maze, friendly fire (boxing), light jump, pool, disco, race and other games. We encourage ct's to make new games to make jb fresh and exciting. Our map developers such as Hyphen and Decroded are trying hard to bring us new maps (hyphen has 2 in development Big Grin). adding more choice into the rotation. Maps such as jb_clouds are more unique but are what i call a bad map. (in which most fg/mn jb players would agree)


FF smokes have been apart of jb for ages and although it tends to be annoying for the t's, it helps thin out the t side a bit (and also make conflict). Other suggestions such as adding !w and allowing cts to order ts to crouch walk to locations turns this server into every other jb community out there. 

Guns are given to t's if the round hasnt progressed. This is to make sure that people don't have to wait 8+ minutes to wait for a round. 

Lr is given to the last t as onionz said "as a reward" however that does not stop the last t's from lring. If all the t's type !lr, a random team lr begins. (games such as dodge exploding barrels, 1 shot deagle and deagle toss).

Our admins try and deal with the mic spammers as best they can. starting off with short mutes and going up from that. However end of map mutes is hard to keep track of.

Although we appreciate the feedback. Personally i don't think many of our staff/players would agree with them.  

We encourage you to make more feedback if you wish. Our staff read all the suggestions/feedback that are posted on the forums.

Cheers, Jordjord


RE: JB Suggestions - Anthonyy - 13-07-2018

Lmao as a banhammer veteran i can say youve completely stolen all this from bh, domination servers has tried to create a new different version of jailbreak. We appreciate your suggestions but you are tryna suggest a basically knockoff version of BH.


RE: JB Suggestions - twitchy - 13-07-2018

(13-07-2018, 05:56 PM)Let me tell you the reasoning behind the things you have pointed out. Wrote: Major Suggestions:
So firstly, the biggest thing I have noticed is the win rate on this server. Note that it varies from map to map but from what I have seen, the terrorists rebel and win around 70-100% of the time which is simply ridiculous in my opinion (this winrate should be around 50%).***This really depends if there are DUD CTs, recently there has been a rise of new players, so pls wait for them to learn and this win rate will change. I do not think that the CT-T ratio is the cause of this, this seems to be an ok ratio. I think that the rules simply do not allow for enough 'discipline' within each round.This is not fun, the rules are made from experience, and from this experience, 'button freeze', 'shift-walk', etc is lame and the onus should be on the CTs to properly control prisoners.  This might work for new players (read: noobs), but is a lot more less Nazi. From my experience playing jailbreak, the best way to do this is to allow the CT team to make the T's 'buttonfreeze' (i.e. no jumping, running around, b-hopping etc). In addition to this, CT's should also be able to make T's shiftwalk or crouchwalk (within reason) to certain locations as well as allowing CT's to make t's face a certain direction when necessary. Sooooo Nazi and not fun, eventually server will die (based on past results) From what I have seen, map games are almost never being played on this server as simply trying to get the T's there allows them too much opportunity to rebel.This is not a fact, I have played more than you and map games are always played given non dud cts. A helpful way Banhammer JB dealt with this was implementing a good warden system coupled with the warden being able to place down various sized 'beacons' in which the T's could be told to remain in or button freeze in, which was very useful for transportation.Sounds like training wheels for first time wardens lmao This warden system was also very handy for being able to confirm who the warden was every round (the ct's would type !w in chat every round and a warden was randomly chosen and the name displayed to everyone). Additionally, only the warden had access to these beacons and commands. See argument on giving particular orders.

Secondly, I feel a system needs to be put in place for T's who have rebelled (shot or damaged a CT either by a nade, knife or gun) as well as baited weapons. The way BH used to deal with this was to make the model of the rebelling T red to distinguish him from the rest of themWTF this isn't Blackmirror no ones going to turn red, too much advantage to CTs.  Also what if the damage was accident? What if it was a random name?  Too many what if's which will blow up admin chat (after he had damaged a CT), additionally, a message was posted in chat which specified who had rebelled. This way, a T could not simply have a gun in a large group then throw it to someone else to prevent being killed after having shot a CT. Furthermore, baited t's were able to have their 'rebel' status removed by admins on the server as well as their guns, as it is the CT's fault that they were baited. This is the essence of the fun, it actually takes skill to do this as NON DUD cts would pick up on this pretty quickly and kill the rebeler.  Also baiting is against the rules so is already dealt with.

Next, I feel as though the mic spam needs to be addressed. I have played too many games where the T's were simply spamming their mics and thus no one could hear the wardens orders and admins were not muting the Terrorists. This is simply ridiculous. Any player that mic spams repeatedly at the end of every round or during the round should have harsher punishments (a map mute for example or for extreme cases a ban of some sort). The mic spam over the warden and CT's, especially when the warden gets killed is quite a big issue in my opinion.Mic spam during the game is quickly dealt with given an admin is on.  If they were spamming and you didn't hear orders then you don't have to be killed.  Simply message an admin and youll be on ur way.  Mic spam can also be an indicator of level of gaming satisfaction (see end of round/map spam)

Minor Suggestions:
1) Allow CT's to kill terrorists on sight if they pull out a primary weapon but not a secondary (slight change to the holster rule)What if i want to see my sick new skin?
2) Add more maps - some common jailbreak ones (clouds, peanut views, renegade,sand etc.) I strongly feel as though the maps currently in rotation are not developed well enough - not enough map games, not set out the best (too many opportunities to rebel), controls for games not clear etc. Note that this doesnt apply to all the maps, but it would be nice to have common JB maps in the rotation. You can't have an opinion on maps if your not a map maker yourself.  Hard af to make.  Also, 'Common' JB maps is subjective.  head over to #mappinganddevelopment on discord if you want to suggest things.
3) Kind of a big one. I REALLY think that the friendly fire smokes need to be removed.No, the majority of players find it fun.  You are the minority. I personally dont really see the point of them other than to disrupt the flow of the round and allow you to kill fellow T's so I think that having these in the game should be reconsidered. 
4) Consider having admins do more mic/rulechecks on the CT's, since it seems that at many times, some CT's dont know the rules properly or how to play CT. Every non dud CT started out as a dud CT, let them learn.
5) Allow the game Last Reaction to be played. In my experience, it is a pretty fun game and useful for thinning the T's when theres a lot of them or for getting an even number or something of that sort etc. So far you've said non-fun things that you say are fun and fun things you say are not fun.  This makes your argument invalid. 
6) Consider changing the rule of not playing a mapgame for three rounds. As many of the maps do not have many map games, it can get difficult for CT's. Additionally, some mapgames such as climb, bhop, roulette etc. are just fun and should be able to be played. I understand why this rule is in place but if some maps are added so that there are many map games, there will be enough variety so rounds dont become stale and boring for the T's See previous red text
7) At the moment, Last Request is only available for the last Terrorist remaining, however, I think it should be for the last 3. It simply allows for more people to play it.They can if all !lr
8) Dont give T's guns the end of the round. Allow it to be played out. Consider also extending the round timer to 10ish minutes for more mapgames to be played.LOL and let 35+ people wait for 3-4 people? nty

Theres probably a few more minor things i forgot but thats it for now. Again, i really appreciate any admins reading this and taking my thoughts into account. I realize that every server is different and some of the major changes may be out of the question but I thought i would suggest them anyway because from my experience, banhammer was a very popular and active JB server and in which many of these rules were in place and everyone seemed to think the balance of both teams was right and everyone had fun most of the time. Thanks for your detailed input, give the server another go for a couple months and perhaps take note on how non-dud CTs play the game.

Thanks for hearing me out,
TyrANUS  Smile



RE: JB Suggestions - Hooliano - 13-07-2018

These are all gay, how about you get a life <3


RE: JB Suggestions - IVORK - 13-07-2018

(13-07-2018, 08:04 PM)Anthony Wrote: Lmao as a banhammer veteran i can say youve completely stolen all this from bh, domination servers has tried to create a new different version of jailbreak. We appreciate your suggestions but you are tryna suggest a basically knockoff version of BH.

Lol, well both Q4-Bi and ab used to play FG back in the day and have made comments on preferring our style on numerous occasions. We pre-date BH by 3 years or so, just were late to move to CS:GO.


RE: JB Suggestions - Islam - 14-07-2018

all ts afk freeze